Today, Hank Paulsen, the Treasury Secretary, submitted a plan to congress to bail out the mortgage giants known as "Fannie Mae", and "Freddie Mac". His 'plan' calls for UNLIMITED funds for this bailout, controlled and administered by him at his discretion. Besides having financial disaster written all over it, the undetermined price tag will of course be born by the taxpayer, it overrides the constitution in that it takes the constitutional RESPONSIBILITY of the budget away from the congress and gives it to the Executive branch (Treasury Secretary is a cabinet position). The big question is will the Dems have the cajones' to say NO?, I doubt it. It will be more politically expedient to approve the 'plan', Hold on to your wallets...... Once again, Dems asleep on the job...
Today, Hank Paulsen, the Treasury Secretary, submitted a plan to congress to bail out the mortgage giants known as "Fannie Mae", and "Freddie Mac". His 'plan' calls for UNLIMITED funds for this bailout, controlled and administered by him at his discretion. Besides having financial disaster written all over it, the undetermined price tag will of course be born by the taxpayer, it overrides the constitution in that it takes the constitutional RESPONSIBILITY of the budget away from the congress and gives it to the Executive branch (Treasury Secretary is a cabinet position). The big question is will the Dems have the cajones' to say NO?, I doubt it. It will be more politically expedient to approve the 'plan', Hold on to your wallets...... Once again, Dems asleep on the job...
Quoting: Originally posted by jammer2 Dave, you are truly a man of style AND substance...when I grow up I wanna be just like you... (PS) the smart Obama supporters are having humble pie, lest we forget...
LOL Thanks Jammer, but why grow up, I've been fighting that for years ;-)
Quoting jammer2:
Dave, you are truly a man of style AND substance...when I grow up I wanna be just like you... (PS) the smart Obama supporters are having humble pie, lest we forget...
LOL Thanks Jammer, but why grow up, I've been fighting that for years ;-)
Dave, you are truly a man of style AND substance...when I grow up I wanna be just like you... (PS) the smart Obama supporters are having humble pie, lest we forget...
Dave, you are truly a man of style AND substance...when I grow up I wanna be just like you... (PS) the smart Obama supporters are having humble pie, lest we forget...
Days left to go...which side of history will be be voting for? The future or the past =)
Come on Ms. Pring, You know I've never bought into that "McC is like W" argument. So I haven't seen anything to change my mind. My guy has still never voted 'present' still never supported any pork bills, still is the real agent for change, still is best qualified for the job, but his campaign has never been able to get that word out there. I have mixed feeling now about any possible upset because now it would undeniably be the Bradley effect and that's not the way I want a win. I am having a blast with my very white Republican friends, the uproar I'm seeing is hilarious and I, of course, make it worse when I tell them that those who supported 'W' in 2000 are the reason McC is losing today. They hate to see themselves as the cause for their loss, but I'm not letting up on them.
For our dinner Tuesday Night, I think I'll order the crow, what are you having?.....
Quoting tepring:
Ok Dave,
Days left to go...which side of history will be be voting for? The future or the past =)
Come on Ms. Pring, You know I've never bought into that "McC is like W" argument. So I haven't seen anything to change my mind. My guy has still never voted 'present' still never supported any pork bills, still is the real agent for change, still is best qualified for the job, but his campaign has never been able to get that word out there. I have mixed feeling now about any possible upset because now it would undeniably be the Bradley effect and that's not the way I want a win. I am having a blast with my very white Republican friends, the uproar I'm seeing is hilarious and I, of course, make it worse when I tell them that those who supported 'W' in 2000 are the reason McC is losing today. They hate to see themselves as the cause for their loss, but I'm not letting up on them.
For our dinner Tuesday Night, I think I'll order the crow, what are you having?.....
I'm not crazy about the cozy back and forth a certain level of appointees' have between business and government...the ethical implications are unappetizing, to say the least. However, at a certain level, the pool of good candidates for posts such as sec.treasury or fed reserve chairman get pretty small...and if politics gets involved, then the pool gets larger, but with less capable or competent candidates... and so it goes...
I'm not crazy about the cozy back and forth a certain level of appointees' have between business and government...the ethical implications are unappetizing, to say the least. However, at a certain level, the pool of good candidates for posts such as sec.treasury or fed reserve chairman get pretty small...and if politics gets involved, then the pool gets larger, but with less capable or competent candidates... and so it goes...
Yes Jammer, I have no problem with those that made it legitimately, but those that gained through malfeasance should be punished INCLUDING the politicians that helped it along. This type of excess is very typical of an empire at the end of it's wealth cycle and the beginning of the end of that empire. It's interesting to note that the 'bailout' that I am so strongly against was to 'buy up bad mortgate debt' but now, the first 1/3 of the money went TO the banks as preferred stock purchases(a cash injection). Besides the commercial banks, Goldman Sacks (an INVESTMENT bank)recieved an equal share as the large commercials. Guess who was former CEO of Goldman prior to becoming Treasury Secretary? Right, Hank Paulsen and he has already said he would not serve the next president. Wonder where he'll get his next job?
Yes Jammer, I have no problem with those that made it legitimately, but those that gained through malfeasance should be punished INCLUDING the politicians that helped it along. This type of excess is very typical of an empire at the end of it's wealth cycle and the beginning of the end of that empire. It's interesting to note that the 'bailout' that I am so strongly against was to 'buy up bad mortgate debt' but now, the first 1/3 of the money went TO the banks as preferred stock purchases(a cash injection). Besides the commercial banks, Goldman Sacks (an INVESTMENT bank)recieved an equal share as the large commercials. Guess who was former CEO of Goldman prior to becoming Treasury Secretary? Right, Hank Paulsen and he has already said he would not serve the next president. Wonder where he'll get his next job?
Thats all true, but for we americans someone has to pay...its only reasonable to demand that someone hangs for this. When a 28 or 29 year old banker makes a 250 MILLION dollar fortune in less than 5 years and 2 million people are losing their homes, somebody HAS to suffer the consequences. I was at a function last week and overheard a comment from a man named Klaus von Thyssen, who's family owns the one of the largest industrial concerns in Europe, ThyssenKrup, and he said,' It took my famly over 100 years to accululate our fortune, and the yanks have children doing it overnight'. This guy is worth about half a billion... maybe its just my bostonian puritanism but those that have and are profiting from this mess on our backs should be scourged and horsewhipped on the white house lawn, starting with the heads of all those banks...
Thats all true, but for we americans someone has to pay...its only reasonable to demand that someone hangs for this. When a 28 or 29 year old banker makes a 250 MILLION dollar fortune in less than 5 years and 2 million people are losing their homes, somebody HAS to suffer the consequences. I was at a function last week and overheard a comment from a man named Klaus von Thyssen, who's family owns the one of the largest industrial concerns in Europe, ThyssenKrup, and he said,' It took my famly over 100 years to accululate our fortune, and the yanks have children doing it overnight'. This guy is worth about half a billion... maybe its just my bostonian puritanism but those that have and are profiting from this mess on our backs should be scourged and horsewhipped on the white house lawn, starting with the heads of all those banks...
"I heard some republican talking head say that there was a concerted effort during the Clinton administration to put more 'poor americans'into their own homes by letting marginally qualified persons get home loans, thereby insuring that the taxpayers would have to bail them out when they indeed, defaulted on the loans etc, etc....I'm amazed at the convoluted reasoning necessary to make this deduction."
That rumor is getting louder and louder as Americans look for someone to blame for the economic crisis. As I've said repeatedly, the economy goes in cycles and has nothinbg to do with who is president, therefore, debating who's to blame and who gets credit has no bearing. The latest thing going around the business news is that The large market selloffs is due to wall street anticipating an Obama Presidency.
Here is what I said in this blog on Oct 4th, immediately after the 'bailout approval (Dow peaked on that day at 10796.26)
This blog Oct04,2008; "The DOW had a 500 point reversal (from +320 pts. to -160 pts.) after the approval and ""closed in a position where crashes are known to occur."" If the markets crash on Monday it will be a fitting way to tell our corrupt politicians they screwed up and we're tired of it."
Result; Dow hit a low the following week of 7882(a 30%drop). A potential Obama presidency had nothing to do with this. It was foreseeable and nobody is at fault. Just a bad decision on the bailout because it's not going to work.
More selling pressure ahead Stay tuned.
"I heard some republican talking head say that there was a concerted effort during the Clinton administration to put more 'poor americans'into their own homes by letting marginally qualified persons get home loans, thereby insuring that the taxpayers would have to bail them out when they indeed, defaulted on the loans etc, etc....I'm amazed at the convoluted reasoning necessary to make this deduction."
That rumor is getting louder and louder as Americans look for someone to blame for the economic crisis. As I've said repeatedly, the economy goes in cycles and has nothinbg to do with who is president, therefore, debating who's to blame and who gets credit has no bearing. The latest thing going around the business news is that The large market selloffs is due to wall street anticipating an Obama Presidency.
Here is what I said in this blog on Oct 4th, immediately after the 'bailout approval (Dow peaked on that day at 10796.26)
This blog Oct04,2008; "The DOW had a 500 point reversal (from +320 pts. to -160 pts.) after the approval and ""closed in a position where crashes are known to occur."" If the markets crash on Monday it will be a fitting way to tell our corrupt politicians they screwed up and we're tired of it."
Result; Dow hit a low the following week of 7882(a 30%drop). A potential Obama presidency had nothing to do with this. It was foreseeable and nobody is at fault. Just a bad decision on the bailout because it's not going to work.
I was just thinking... If McCain were really smart and willing to really win this thing, he should have taken the moral high ground and confronted Wall St. with anger and outrage...the betrayed believer, deeply hurt...I can see the press conference as it should have been...Big Mac shaking his wise, silvered head and saying,`We gave you everything you wanted and all WE wanted was that everyone got a fair chance at the american dream`...you told us less regulation would create more business and ultimately create more jobs and prosperity for the american people...it was a golden opportunity to hamstring the Obama campaign and seize the race on all levels...fix blame and put him in front of Obama as someone willing to make a mistake and ready to do something about it...instead he's now rolling in the mud and relying on Rovian tactics to run to the right in an orgy of negative ads...talk about bad judgement...
I was just thinking... If McCain were really smart and willing to really win this thing, he should have taken the moral high ground and confronted Wall St. with anger and outrage...the betrayed believer, deeply hurt...I can see the press conference as it should have been...Big Mac shaking his wise, silvered head and saying,`We gave you everything you wanted and all WE wanted was that everyone got a fair chance at the american dream`...you told us less regulation would create more business and ultimately create more jobs and prosperity for the american people...it was a golden opportunity to hamstring the Obama campaign and seize the race on all levels...fix blame and put him in front of Obama as someone willing to make a mistake and ready to do something about it...instead he's now rolling in the mud and relying on Rovian tactics to run to the right in an orgy of negative ads...talk about bad judgement...
I'm glad theres something for the services in this thing...It's truly pitiful what has happen to vets' benefits over the last 20 years... I never thought the day would come when a voter would need a degree in accounting to understand why we're giving 750 BILLION dollars to incompetent bank managers...maybe I'm just dumb, but isnt this stuff supposed to be understandable for the 'hockey moms' and 'joe sixpack'? Dave, the more I think on your idea about giving the money to the voting public, the more I like it..an economic stimulus packet on steroids... CHANGE OF SUBJECT... I heard some republican talking head say that there was a concerted effort during the Clinton administration to put more 'poor americans'into their own homes by letting marginally qualified persons get home loans, thereby insuring that the taxpayers would have to bail them out when they indeed, defaulted on the loans etc, etc....I'm amazed at the convoluted reasoning necessary to make this deduction...
I'm glad theres something for the services in this thing...It's truly pitiful what has happen to vets' benefits over the last 20 years... I never thought the day would come when a voter would need a degree in accounting to understand why we're giving 750 BILLION dollars to incompetent bank managers...maybe I'm just dumb, but isnt this stuff supposed to be understandable for the 'hockey moms' and 'joe sixpack'? Dave, the more I think on your idea about giving the money to the voting public, the more I like it..an economic stimulus packet on steroids... CHANGE OF SUBJECT... I heard some republican talking head say that there was a concerted effort during the Clinton administration to put more 'poor americans'into their own homes by letting marginally qualified persons get home loans, thereby insuring that the taxpayers would have to bail them out when they indeed, defaulted on the loans etc, etc....I'm amazed at the convoluted reasoning necessary to make this deduction...
Look up "bailout" in the congressional record. There is a summary, but you'll probably want to look through the text. The first benefits are for the military. Most of these benefits are sorely needed. I was surprised to see this in there. Then there are some tax issues, and finally the asset stuff for buying the wall street mess.
Look up "bailout" in the congressional record. There is a summary, but you'll probably want to look through the text. The first benefits are for the military. Most of these benefits are sorely needed. I was surprised to see this in there. Then there are some tax issues, and finally the asset stuff for buying the wall street mess.
Quoting: Originally posted by jammer2 I'm interested in the earmarks on this thing....where can I find plain english explainations of what they are?
The original one was posted on the internet at the Treasury Dept. website (3 pages). Don't know if the new improved version will be (300+ pages). The only thing I heard that made sense was the increas in FDIC insured accounts($100k - $250k). Every thing else was pure pork, such as tax breaks for those that ride bicycles to work. Really important for the bill huh? Ohio's 2nd congressional district congress woman changed from a 'no' vote to a 'yes' vote, I'll make sure to vote against her in November(a Republican). More importantly, The DOW had a 500 point reversal (from +320 pts. to -160 pts.) after the approval and closed in a position where crashes are known to occur. If the markets crash on Monday it will be a fitting way to tell our corrupt politicians they screwed up and we're tired of it.
Quoting jammer2:
I'm interested in the earmarks on this thing....where can I find plain english explainations of what they are?
The original one was posted on the internet at the Treasury Dept. website (3 pages). Don't know if the new improved version will be (300+ pages). The only thing I heard that made sense was the increas in FDIC insured accounts($100k - $250k). Every thing else was pure pork, such as tax breaks for those that ride bicycles to work. Really important for the bill huh? Ohio's 2nd congressional district congress woman changed from a 'no' vote to a 'yes' vote, I'll make sure to vote against her in November(a Republican). More importantly, The DOW had a 500 point reversal (from +320 pts. to -160 pts.) after the approval and closed in a position where crashes are known to occur. If the markets crash on Monday it will be a fitting way to tell our corrupt politicians they screwed up and we're tired of it.
The new improved version of the latest bailout passed the Senate. Increased by $105bn of extra 'pork'. This in spite of 90% of constituents phone calls and e-mails encouraging our elected officials to vote against the bailout. Guess our officials think they were elected to vote for their own desires instead of ours. Both Ohio Senators voted for the bill, I'll vote against whomever is up for re-election.
The new improved version of the latest bailout passed the Senate. Increased by $105bn of extra 'pork'. This in spite of 90% of constituents phone calls and e-mails encouraging our elected officials to vote against the bailout. Guess our officials think they were elected to vote for their own desires instead of ours. Both Ohio Senators voted for the bill, I'll vote against whomever is up for re-election.
Quoting: Originally posted by jammer2 Bold...Decisive..Hell, yeah...I can go for it...these are the thoughts I've been having but wasnt thinking that big...but I have to admit it's perfect. Why not? One big roll of the dice, dump the entire economic future of the people of america directly in their hands again...the right has their personal responsibility back in their hands,creates a pool of money for small business to grow in...a little like a one time stock dividend for being american...lets do it!
Yeah, and this is 'ONLY' the AIG bailout ($85bn), you still have Bear Stearns ($30bn), Fannie/Freddie (UNLIMITED!!), and of course the current ($700bn) proposal.Makes you wonder who is really getting bailed out. ALL of our leadership; Congress, Senate, President, Treasury, Fed Chairman, and BOTH candidates, are looking like the gang that couldn't shoot straight.....Republicrats
Quoting jammer2:
Bold...Decisive..Hell, yeah...I can go for it...these are the thoughts I've been having but wasnt thinking that big...but I have to admit it's perfect. Why not? One big roll of the dice, dump the entire economic future of the people of america directly in their hands again...the right has their personal responsibility back in their hands,creates a pool of money for small business to grow in...a little like a one time stock dividend for being american...lets do it!
Yeah, and this is 'ONLY' the AIG bailout ($85bn), you still have Bear Stearns ($30bn), Fannie/Freddie (UNLIMITED!!), and of course the current ($700bn) proposal.Makes you wonder who is really getting bailed out. ALL of our leadership; Congress, Senate, President, Treasury, Fed Chairman, and BOTH candidates, are looking like the gang that couldn't shoot straight.....Republicrats
Bold...Decisive..Hell, yeah...I can go for it...these are the thoughts I've been having but wasnt thinking that big...but I have to admit it's perfect. Why not? One big roll of the dice, dump the entire economic future of the people of america directly in their hands again...the right has their personal responsibility back in their hands,creates a pool of money for small business to grow in...a little like a one time stock dividend for being american...lets do it!
Bold...Decisive..Hell, yeah...I can go for it...these are the thoughts I've been having but wasnt thinking that big...but I have to admit it's perfect. Why not? One big roll of the dice, dump the entire economic future of the people of america directly in their hands again...the right has their personal responsibility back in their hands,creates a pool of money for small business to grow in...a little like a one time stock dividend for being american...lets do it!
I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG. Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a " We Deserve It Dividend". To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "We Deserve It Dividend"
Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.0 0 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam. But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00. What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college - it'll be there
Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car - create jobs
Invest in the market - capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.
If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!
As for AIG - liquidate it.
Sell off its parts. & nbsp; Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here's my rationale. We deserve it ~ AIG doesn't.
Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."
But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
How do you spell Economic Boom?
I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
We Deserve It Dividend more than the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.
And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.
Putting it in perspective....
I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG. Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a " We Deserve It Dividend". To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "We Deserve It Dividend"
Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.0 0 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam. But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00. What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college - it'll be there
Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car - create jobs
Invest in the market - capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.
If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!
As for AIG - liquidate it.
Sell off its parts. & nbsp; Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here's my rationale. We deserve it ~ AIG doesn't.
Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."
But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
How do you spell Economic Boom?
I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
We Deserve It Dividend more than the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.
And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.
Quoting: Originally posted by jammer2 So if the dems are finally getting it, does that mean you're gonna cast your vote for Obama? Please,please, please say yes... (I'll do anything to rescue a good man from the dark side...)
Nope, sorry Jammer, as I've said before, politicians will not be able to override the economic cycle that is in place, so I'll have to ride this cycle with my guy all the way to the bottom. Bad thing for my guy as this past week or so is probably the defining moment in the election. Bad thing for the country is all these bailouts will make matters worse in the long run.
Quoting jammer2:
So if the dems are finally getting it, does that mean you're gonna cast your vote for Obama? Please,please, please say yes... (I'll do anything to rescue a good man from the dark side...)
Nope, sorry Jammer, as I've said before, politicians will not be able to override the economic cycle that is in place, so I'll have to ride this cycle with my guy all the way to the bottom. Bad thing for my guy as this past week or so is probably the defining moment in the election. Bad thing for the country is all these bailouts will make matters worse in the long run.
